We often reach adulthood without ever being taught how to process our emotions. But an unprocessed emotion never goes away; it simply festers and grows. Associate professor Maja Djikic joined the Executive Summary podcast to talk about how to identify if we're bad at processing our feelings, how we can get better at it, and what role organizations have in helping their leaders and teams understanding that skillset.
We often reach adulthood without ever being taught how to process our emotions. But an unprocessed emotion never goes away; it simply festers and grows.
Associate professor Maja Djikic joined the Executive Summary podcast to talk about how to identify if we're bad at processing our feelings, how we can get better at it, and what role organizations have in helping their leaders and teams understanding that skillset.
Show notes
[0:00] “A lot of discussion on managing emotions has to do with how to make emotions go away. Usually they're seen as something negative, something you don't want to have. This is why being called emotional seems like an insult.”
[0:48] Meet Maja Djikic, an associate professor at Rotman who studies adult development and authored the recently released book, The Possible Self.
[1:18] If there’s one thing she wants you to know about emotions, it’s that an unprocessed emotion never goes away.
[1:36] Emotions are tied to our goals, and when we ignore them, we might be missing out on important information that helps move our lives forward.
[2:05] What is an emotion?
[2:30] How are our emotions tied to our goals, and how does this present itself?
[2:53] Positive emotions reinforce that things are going well.
[3:10] Negative emotions might tell us something is wrong on our path to our goal. For example, fear might tell you that you’re afraid of getting fired, and that your relationships with colleagues have gone amiss.
[4:15] People are bad at processing and understanding their emotions.
[4:25] Some of this is evolutionary – our fight or flight instinct often kicks in when we have a strong emotion.
[5:07] Let’s sidebar to explain the difference between processing and expressing emotions.
[5:55] The other reason we’re bad at processing emotions is we’re likely never taught how.
[6:45] The first step in processing emotions is to recognize you’re bad at it and work to improve that skillset.
[7:16] The second step is to recognize you’re having a strong negative emotion and bring your pre-frontal cortex back online.
[8:34] Step three is to identify what you’re feeling and try and link it back to the goal you’re trying to achieve.
[10:11] Why does this matter for a workplace? Leaders who can’t process emotions create toxic environments.
[10:55] Learning to process feelings should be top-down.
[11:17] As a leader, how can you help your team better process their emotions?
[13:10] And when those around you can’t or won’t learn to process their emotions? “If you're in a situation where the leadership is not interested at all and processing there. So then that becomes a choice for you to stay or to leave. There’s all these people around me they're doing a lot of negative expression because they're not able to process. They don't seem to be interested in anything to do with processing in education. Okay, well, how long do I want to hang out here?
Megan Haynes: Emotions get a back rep – particularly in the workplace. Don’t cry at work; Don’t take things personality; Control your temper. Keep calm, carry on.
Maja Djikic: A lot of discussion on managing emotions has to do with how to make emotions go away. usually they're seen as something negative, something you don't want to have. This is why being called emotional seems like an insult.
A lot of people tend to put emotionality on the other side of rationality and decision making because they see emotion as impeding or obstructing their rationality. So we have people being told they’re being emotional when there when people are trying to tell them they’re being irrational. What I really want to highlight is that emotions are in their very nature are rational
My name is Maja Djikic. I'm associate professor here at Rotman School of Management and I'm the director of self development lab. I study adult development specializing on how it is that adults develop their personality.
MH: Maja is also the author of The Possible Self, which aims to help individuals feeling stagnated in their lives identify the problem area and kickstart things back up. The book takes a deep dive into motivation, behaviour, the mind, body, and of course, emotions. And, if there’s one thing Maja wants people to know about emotions, it’s:
MD: An unprocessed emotion never goes away
MH: Anger, anxiety, fear – when left unprocessed are like untreated wounds. They fester and spread.
And, importantly, ignoring our feelings means, we might be missing out on important clues and information we need to meet our goals – and this can be particularly harmful in a workplace setting.
But can we learn to process our emotions as adults, and why is it an especially good skill for current and future leaders to foster?
Welcome to the Executive Summary, I’m Megan Haynes, editor of the Rotman Insights Hub.
Musical introduction
MH: Let’s start with the basics. An emotion is a conscious or subconscious mental reaction to an outside experience. Most neurotypical and many neurodivergent adults are adept at identifying when they’re feeling a particular emotion like happiness or sadness.
We might get a physiological reaction – say our palms sweat when we’re nervous or we start to cry when we’re angry.
Maja sees our emotions as intrinsically tied with our personal goals. They might be stated – like when feel joy when you meet your savings target, or anger when you lose out on a promotion. But they might be unstated or unaware goals – like feeling embarrassed when someone corrects your work, which is tied to your desire to be the smartest person in the room.
Ultimately all emotions are trying to tell us something in relation to our goals.
MD: Positive emotions tells us to keep going happiness, just says you've reached a goal, keep going, you know what you're doing. Joy says you're developing, keep going, keep developing. It just says, Okay, whatever you're doing, keep doing,”
MH: In comparison, negative emotions might tell us something is wrong on our path to our goals. Maja gives the example of someone not getting letters of recommendation in the pursuit of a promotion.
MD: You might feel a little bit disappointed and sad and angry and afraid. And each of these emotions is telling you Okay here you had this goal, there was this promotion, that was a sub goal, which is getting these letters and in that moment you realize that there is something amiss in that process, and that you need to now start paying very careful attention to what's happening at your work in your relationship with these people to understand why you're not getting these letters to help you support your promotion.
MH: If you ignore your feelings, you might be missing key information.
MD: If you're feeling very afraid, it could be that you're worried about getting fired. If you're feeling very angry, it could be that the relationships with these people have gone amiss, and now you're feeling frustrated by their lack of reciprocity. What kind of emotion you’re having gives you a shade of what is it that you need to think about going forward, how to solve the problem that has presented itself to you.
MH: This is where a lot of the challenges come in.
Many people are really bad at processing and interpreting negative emotions, which means we often miss what our emotions are trying to tell us.
Part of the issue is physiological – born from evolution. When we experience a strong negative emotion, our fight or flight response kicks in.
MD: Our body is adapted for physical obstacles and threats. And because now we have as humans, cognitive obstacles and threats in that moment, when we have this experience of emotion coming on. If it is anger, very strong anger or very strong fear, our prefrontal cortex shuts down.
MH: Long-term planning and thinking tends to go out the window. Lots of people deal by shutting down their emotional response – they distract themselves, put it aside. Others simply express that emotion in the moment, without taking time to process what it’s trying to tell them.
Let’s pause here and take a minute here to talk about expression versus processing.
MD: Expressing and processing emotions are very, very different. Expressing basically, it's a leftover of our primate history. So we do whatever this physiology of this emotion expresses itself in us,
In our evolutionary history, you overcame an obstacle by smashing it to smithereens, or you removed yourself from a threat by running away.
This is not going to help us process the emotion because the emotion is trying to get us understand what is the obstacle and how to overcome it.
MH: Processing, on the other hand, is taking the time to understand the emotion, what it’s telling you, and how you might get back on track to meeting your goals.
Lots of people are, frankly, bad at this – partially because we’re never taught how. Processing is a learned behaviour, and many people reach adulthood having only learned how to express – or in some cases not express – those emotional responses.
MD: I found myself having a PhD, a number of years of postdoctoral fellowship before I even thought oh wait, you're supposed to process an emotion, you're not supposed to just feel it?
And yes, you can learn to process emotion, no matter how many years you have gone without processing them. So you can, you can learn at three, you can learn at 20, at 48, 98. Whichever age you're at, it will be as useful.
Musical interlude
MH: So how do you learn to better process your emotions? Well, you should probably take stock, acknowledging whether you’re bad at it in the first place.
MD: One of the ways that you could identify whether or not you're not so good at processing Emotions is do you avoid them when they show up? Do you try to pretend they don't exist? Do you erupt into emotion expression, without any prelude to what has happened.
MH: Once you’ve accepted you probably need to learn to process your emotions, the first step is recognizing that the emotion is there, and not ignore it.
MD: For some people, it shows up as a physiological expression, their heart will be faster, they'll start sweating. For another person, it shows up as their attention is going to shift, they'll suddenly be popped out of the situation, there'll be they'll kind of be in their own head, for another they'll suddenly have very angry thoughts each person has to learn a language of their own emotions when they show up.
MH: Once you’ve identified that you’re having a negative emotion, it’s time to bring your prefrontal cortex back online.
MD: There's few ways – I think of them as space, time, breathing, or activity.
MH: Take a walk, give yourself five minutes, practice some meditative breathing. These don’t have to be complicated actions.
MD: Athletes are often trained, let's say goalies who receive a goal because in that moment, their prefrontal cortex goes offline. They're trained by their coaches to take a sip of water to reset their prefrontal cortex.
I have heard of one professional who would press very hard, the thumb and the index finger against each other just to bring themselves and sensorily back.
MH: Find whatever works for you – but once you’ve taken that pause, you have to come back to the reaction and dissect it. It’s time to identify the feeling you’re having and what it’s trying to tell you.
MD: Often if we have don't have the language for emotions. We wouldn't know, you know, am I feeling envious? Am I feeling resentful? What is it that I'm feeling?
MH: If you can’t identify the emotion, Maja suggests finding an emotion wheel online to help you put a name to whatever you’re feeling.
MD: Don't pretend you're not having the emotion you're having because you don't think it's the right kind. For example, people tend to not like to experience envy. We can't have taboo against particular emotions. It will influence you without your knowing. The best thing is just become aware. "Oh, wow, I'm a little bit envious of this person because they have some things that I would want in my life. Interesting. What does that mean? How can I progress from there?"
MH: Next, understand the purpose of emotions.
MD: Every emotion is in relation to a goal. The emotion is not going to show up except in relation to a goal
MH: You need to take to the time to recognize what that goal is, and what the emotion is trying to tell you about it.
Didn’t get that promotion? Probably why you’re angry. But are you angry at yourself? Did you miss deadlines? Was there another more qualified candidate? Or are you angry at your boss? Do you feel like they overlooked your achievements or that you weren’t given the same opportunities as colleagues? It’s only once you identify the link, that you can figure out how to get back on track.
Musical interlude
MH: So why does this matter in the workplace? Well, for starters
MD: There are huge problems if leaders can't process their emotions, because they will come out in destructive ways with employees.
MH: Think of CEOs who yell at staff; managers who lash out; supervisors who let their own anxiety seep into daily life.
When leaders can’t process their own emotions, it often results in toxic expression of those emotions, which results in a worse experience for employees.
MD: They are now walking around not really thinking about how to improve something, or how to do their jobs, but just how in the moment to keep themselves employed or keep themselves safe.
MH: Not all is lost, of course.
MD: I think organizations who want to create a good culture should invest more in teaching their managers, leaders, how to process emotion, and then passing on that knowledge all the way down. Role modeling and training people because it can be learned.
MH: Giving leaders the tools to process their own feelings also means that they’ll be able to better help employees as they try and work through emotionally charged situations.
MD: Emotion-heavy conversations, interactions, it's kind of a bread and butter of leadership.
MH: Lots of what leaders have to do is navigate sticky situations – provide bad news, have difficult and frank conversation about performance, set expectations.
And since this might clash with an employee’s goal, there’s likely to be an emotional response on the part of the employee. So what can leaders do?
MD: So really important thing to understand is that we can process an emotion for somebody else. I know all of us, when we see somebody who's suffering with anger, or disappointment or fear, we want to comfort them, we want to make it better for them, it's really important to understand is that their emotions are messages to them, not to us.
MH: There are ways you can help.
MD: If I'm the manager, and you're the employee, and I try to give you feedback, and you get very afraid, and in that moment with the prefrontal cortex shut down, you start saying unhelpful things. It is up to me as a manager to say, "You know, it sounds like we're getting a bit overwhelmed here, why don't we take a little pause." So I make the pause. What I’m not doing is treating their behaviour as an attack on me, and therefore myself becoming angry and defensive.
MH: And, managers should position themselves – not as obstacles to an employee’s goal, but as support.
MD: So the way for me to prevent myself from being an obstacle is set the ground properly. I, say, Listen, I’m here because I care about your performance in this organization, I care that you stay, I cared that you flourish. So notice what’s happened instead of, here’s your problems, and I am the cause of your problem. Somehow, by bringing that up. I’m here to help you get through them.
MH: Not everything will be straight-forward, of course, and there will always be employees, colleagues, team members and even leaders unable or unwilling to learn to process their own emotions.
And, particularly when your manager or company leadership are the problem, it might be time for you to think about whether that job is the right one for you.
MD: If you're in a situation where the leadership is not interested at all and processing there. So then that becomes a choice for you to stay or to leave. there's all these people around me they're doing a lot of negative expression because they're not able to process. They don't seem to be interested in anything to do with processing in education. Okay, well, how long do I want to hang out here? Because if you know how to do it, it's a good skill that is high in demand of any professional setting.
Musical outro
MH: This has been Rotman Executive Summary, a podcast bringing you the latest insights and innovative thinking from Canada's leading business school.
Special thanks to associate professor Maja Djikic. Join us in a few weeks as we chat with assistant professor Rhia Catapano about the risks for brands when weighing in on politically and socially divisive topics.
This episode was written and produced by Megan Haynes. It was recorded by Dan Mazzotta, and edited by Avery Moore Kloss. For more innovative thinking, head over to the Rotman Insights Hub, and subscribe to this podcast on Spotify, Apple or Google Podcasts. Thanks for tuning in.